JK’s Famous Question
JK blogger KarynNJ was talking about seeing Joe Scarborough on MSNBC yesterday. She said “Scarborough, very upset about the Iraqi civil war, was saying that there was no mission there for our men – Lawrence O’Donnell was agreeing. Scarborough then said that he rarely called John Kerry prescient, but the comment that has been going through his head was the question Kerry asked in 1971 at the end of his testimony. “How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?” It was unusual as he was very very emotional.”
She then said that she had written a letter to Joe and she shared it. KarynNJ touched on some points that are so often overlooked, in a simple yet powerful manner. We’d like to share it with all of you. <!Dear Mr. Scarborough,
I was surprised to hear you very emotionally reference John Kerry’s famous question from his 1971 Senate testimony. For many people, the truth that Vietnam in 1971 was as hopeless (though less dangerous to the world as a whole) as Iraq was distorted by a resurgence of the idea that Vietnam could have been won. This view that America could have won if popular support had remained behind the Vietnam War has been used against Senator Kerry for decades.
Senator Kerry’s perfectly formulated 1971 question which takes war to its very heart – the individual soldier who might die – was in stark contrast to all other political speech I have heard. Kerry went on to say that every day someone had to lose his life because politicians were unwilling to admit what the whole world already knew. In recent years, Robert MacNamara in “Fog of War” admits that he knew the war couldn’t be won as early as 1968. Senator Kerry has said in speeches in and out of the Senate that half the men whose names are on the Vietnam War Wall died after that time.
It seems that at this point you and many other commentators have reached the point Senator Kerry reached in April of this year, when he spoke out against allowing soldiers to die rather than admitting the policy in Iraq was wrong. You might want to see a video of a speech he gave in Boston on April 22, 2006 – the 35th anniversary of his Senate testimony. The speech is called “Dissent” If the link doesn’t work, it is on his web site, johnkerry.com, under multimedia.
Last summer, it was Senator Kerry and a few others who placed the lives of soldiers over the political calendar unlike the centrist triangulators. The Republicans were following Bush in a lock step formation on Iraq. The Centrists in the Democratic party clearly did not want Iraq debated in the Senate. I am fully convinced having been at the Boston speech on April 22, 2006, that Senator Kerry in proposing his Kerry/Feingold amendment was one of the few politicians motivated by the seriousness of the situation and the lives of the soldiers rather than politics. He knew the result of speaking the truth in 1971. He knew that Americans prefer to follow those who deceive them saying that we can win rather than honor those who admit that we can’t. Those 2 views, 35 years apart, are the real story of supporting the troops. No fumbled joke, though it hurts politically, can take that away.
A few weeks ago, you among others spent a huge amount of time making a mountain out of a mole hill when you treated Senator Kerry’s botched joke as an important event. The man left out a pronoun “us” in a joke written for him. For political points, you gave this more weight than you have all of Senator Kerry’s serious proposals on Iraq (notably Kerry/Feingold and “the path forward” explained at Georgetown University in October 2005) and all his work in support of veterans rights and benefits. As a former Congressman, I assume you can look things up in the Congressional Record better than I can. An uncharacteristically soft spoken Senator Kerry I saw on CSPAN begging Republican Senators to accept a provision that would allow widows to remain in military housing for a longer time after the death of their spouse because it would make a traumatic time more manageable, characterizes to me someone who genuinely cares for the troops as people— unlike all the people, of either party, who use the troops as props. Senator Kerry was and is a far better person than most of those who have disparaged him for decades. He is the rare politician who is honest and not corrupt.
Sincerely,
KarynNJ
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GREAT letter, Karynnj! This is the kind of thoughtful, referenced material we need to get out there.
In regard to the number of comments here and on other blogs about what to do about Iraq, I remind people about the 28-point reconciliation plan that the Iraqi people proposed, and which was then reduced to a 24-point plan that went nowhere:
http://raedinthemiddle.blogspot.com/2006_07_03_raedinthemiddle_archive.html
If only John Kerry was overseeing this insanity. I do believe he would be listening a whole lot better than the current *leadership*.
Beautiful, Karynnj, just beautiful!!
Thanks so much, KarynnNJ.
Great letter from KarynNJ. Wasn’t Lawrence O’Donnell on Scarborough last week? Or was he on again yesterday. I’m confused.
Yes, that is an excellent letter and it was moving to read it here. In all fairness to Mr. Scarborough, though, the credit for what we saw on that particular broadcast is due more to Lawrence O’Donnell than to his host on the show.
Mr. O’Donnell has been speaking out seriously, firmly, and with evident emotion about those same issues in all of his recent appearances on NBC and MSNBC. He has pointed out that none of the pundits who’ve been pontificating away about Iraq—himself included—can speak with any true moral authority on the subject because they have never served in combat themselves.
And each time he has had the opportunity to discuss the futility of our country’s current situation in Iraq, Mr. O’Donnell has been careful to sum up his points by quoting what KarynNJ rightly called “Senator Kerry’s perfectly formulated 1971 question which takes war to its very heart—the individual soldier who might die.”
Mr. O’Donnell has clearly spent a lot of time examining the facts, the opinions expressed by himself and other television commentators, and the statements made by politicians and government officials on the subject of our horribly botched military adventure in Iraq. He has clearly taken a long hard look at his own beliefs and motivations in this area, and when he addresses this topic on television it is clear that he is speaking with sadness and regret.
So if props are due—and I believe that they are—then please give props to Mr. O’Donnell for speaking truth about power. He is not just tossing off prognostications and pandering position points when he says what he has been saying every chance he gets these last several days; he is speaking from the heart, and at no little emotional cost to himself.
It’s plain to see that Mr O’Donnell is not taking this matter lightly, and neither should those who have the opportunity to hear and see him speak his piece on the screen.
In my opinion, the fact that Mr. O’Donnell believes the strength of his own statements can best be reinforced by quoting <a>the statements made by a young Lieutenant John Kerry</a> to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on April 23, 1971 speaks volumes about the honesty and integrity of both men during difficult times of brutal war abroad and painful change at home.
beautiful, heartfelt and true words *standing and clapping* for Karynnj
Karyn, that’s an awesome letter! And now is just the right time for it. We’ve already shown that we can demand accountability from our leaders at the ballot box - now we need to figure out ways to demand accountability and integrity in journalism.
Apropos of that famous question, check out this post from Fe Bongolan at the Democracy Cell Project:
Its interesting to watch the twists and turns of the bubble reality and acrobatic contortions of the 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue Set as they encounter this new concept called reality. How much more reality will it take before its acknowledged and something can be done? How can we allow one more American or Iraqi to die for a mistake when a mistake can’t even be recognized?
More: http://www.democracycellproject.net/blog/archives/2006/11/facing_reality.html
A bit off-topic, but interesting:
From Tom Tomorrow: http://thismodernworld.com/3359
Confirming the obvious …
Anyone who’s spent any time reading right wing blogs already understood this to be true:
<ul>Lohse, a social work master’s student at Southern Connecticut State University, says he has proven what many progressives have probably suspected for years: a direct link between mental illness and support for President Bush.
Lohse says his study is no joke. The thesis draws on a survey of 69 psychiatric outpatients in three Connecticut locations during the 2004 presidential election. Lohse’s study, backed by SCSU Psychology professor Jaak Rakfeldt and statistician Misty Ginacola, found a correlation between the severity of a person’s psychosis and their preferences for president: The more psychotic the voter, the more likely they were to vote for Bush.
But before you go thinking all your conservative friends are psychotic, listen to Lohse’s explanation.
“Our study shows that psychotic patients prefer an authoritative leader,” Lohse says. “If your world is very mixed up, there’s something very comforting about someone telling you, ‘This is how it’s going to be.’”
The study was an advocacy project of sorts, designed to register mentally ill voters and encourage them to go to the polls, Lohse explains. The Bush trend was revealed later on.
The study used Modified General Assessment Functioning, or MGAF, a 100-point scale that measures the functioning of disabled patients. A second scale, developed by Rakfeldt, was also used. Knowledge of current issues, government and politics were assessed on a 12-item scale devised by the study authors.
“Bush supporters had significantly less knowledge about current issues, government and politics than those who supported Kerry,” the study says.
posted by Tom Tomorrow at 8:47 AM </ul>
KarynNJ:
Thank you so much for putting into words what many of us have been feeling. Your words are very powerful, and I believe that if they are read by someone with integrity that we might get some commentary on this. And none too soon......
I really get upset seeing “likeability polls” etc. that basically try to show people that the smear machine works and that you can destroy any candidate no matter what their record or service. I’d like to see some counteraction to all the trash which is currently at the forefront of any discussion of the Senator right now. I really miss the “frenzy” we were seeing in October and I hope we see that again soon in the MSM in regards to the Senator ( Faneuil Hall ??).
KarenNJ
Excellent letter. I wonder if Joe Scarborough will take it to heart? Perhaps sending a copy to his colleagues at MSNBC might be worthwhile.
It is too plainly obvious for many of us that our current situation could have been avoided, and that creates a simmering frustration. Occassionally that frustration boils over and we are left to wonder how in the world everybody else can be so myopic. Or maybe I am just talking about myself here.
There is absolutely no doubt that Kerry supporters are more informed about the facts. As Javelin notes, those polls are actually ridiculous, and I believe it is best if we not let ourselves fall into trap of trying to defend Senator Kerry and his “likability index” (one of the stupidest things I have ever heard of). Rather we simply focus on the cold hard facts: John Kerry has been right all along, even since 1971. If people don’t like those facts then don’t let it bother you. All one can do is present the truth. It is up to the individual to ignore them at their own peril.
There was a story today on AlterNet by John Tirman, who is Director of MIT’s Center for International Studies. Mr. Tirman lists 10 Myths About Iraq that people believe because they have a high degree of ‘truthiness’ about them, people want them to be true. They are not.
When reading this list, I was struck by the following point:
5. The “Go Big” strategy of the Pentagon could work. The Pentagon apparently is about to forward three options to Bush for a retreat: “Go Big,” meaning more troops for a short time, “Go Long,” a gradual withdrawal while training Iraqis, and “Go Home,” acknowledging defeat and getting out. Go Big is what McCain and Zinni and others are proposing, as if adding 20,000 or 30,000 troops will do the trick. The argument about more troops, which speaks also to the “incompetence dodge” (i.e., that the war wasn’t wrong, just badly managed), has one problem: no one can convincing prove that modest increments in troop strength will change the security situation in Iraq (see #1 above). One would need 300,000 or more troops to have a chance of pacifying Iraq, and that is neither politically feasible or logistically possible, and is therefore a nonstarter. So is “Go Big.”
http://www.alternet.org/story/44771
I attended the Take Back America conference in June in Wash. DC. I remember Sen. Kerry’s speech in which he said:
“Let me say it plainly. Let me say it plainly. It’s not enough to argue with the logistics or to argue about the details or the manner of the conflict’s execution or the failures of competence, as great as they are. It is essential to acknowledge that the war itself was a mistake. (Cheers, applause.) To say the simple words. (Applause.) To say—to say the simple words that contain more truth than pride.
We were misled. We were given evidence that was not true. It was wrong, and I was wrong to vote for that Iraqi war resolution. (Cheers, applause.) And I will vote—(prolonged cheers and applause)—and I will vote—(cheers and applause continuing) --”
http://home.ourfuture.org/tba06/docs/0613cfaf-kerry.pdf
Sen. Kerry didn’t get to really finish that particular line because of the deafening applause and cheers in the room. He knew back in June what Mr. Timson was writing about today, that the war itself, from it’s inception, was a mistake and should never have happened. Nothing justifies it, there was no ‘right way to do it’ and no one should be able to get away with saying that this was the right war but the wrong implementation.
I had hoped that I would hear other elected officials in the Congress also say words to this effect. Not enough have.
KarynNJ,
What a wonderful letter!
Thank you for sharing it with us.
TayTay,
John Tirman’s 10 myths about Iraq are an interesting read. Thanks for sharing this piece. The president said today that he would not withdraw any troops from Iraq as many expected him to. So it seems ‘go long’ and ‘go home’ are not options Bush would consider. He said today that Al Qaeda is responsible for the violence in Iraq. This is not the case. Al Qaeda represents only 2 to 3 percent of the violence in Iraq.
Bush is still not admitting that Iraq is in a civil war. Neither is he likely to. The Pentagon may recommend sending in 20,000 more troops to fight the civil war. Bush is likely to agree with this. This administration wants to stay in Iraq till 2010, and the violence in Iraq won’t change their strategy. Troop withdrawal is clearly something this president considers to be off the table. But dems should continue to push for this and they are likely to. He is also adamant as before to not engage Iran or Syria in talks. That too is no surprise.
Mistakes are still being made in the approach to the problems of this conflict. It seems that the work of the ISG will have been in vain, because he is not likely to change course by either talking to these two nations neither is he likely to start troop withdrawal which is not part of the ISG’s first draft. It doesn’t help that President Talabani just went to Iran. Not talking to Iran is a mistake, it is to our advantage to engage them.
Common sense on polls, from Mark Barrett:
http://www.thepremise.com
Probus:
Thanks! I found Mr. Tirman’s post fascinating. I agree that Bush is unlikely to ‘Go Long’ and he certainly won’t ‘Go Home.’ That leaves him with ‘Go Big’, which is also what Sen. McCain was pushing for as a ‘policy change.’ (Some change.)
This President just refuses to face that fact that Iraq is out of control and that the addition of a 20,000 troops is unlikely to have much affect at all. How many will be hurt or die because Bush refuses to see what is right in front of him. This is just so awful.
BTW, on ABC News tonight there was a report that the Joint Chiefs of Staff are preparing to abandon Al-Anbar province, a place where over 1,000 American troops have been killed. The JCS have realized that they can’t do anything to stabilize Anbar province and that if we can’t do anything positive, why are we there. No, if only they will ask that about the rest of Iraq, we would be a lot better off.
Posted by DiAnne | November 28, 2006 10:06 PM
Thanks for posting that link DiAnne,
As much as I intellectually understood all that, it was nice to read somebody else who is confirming my judgements. I think one aspect of all of this is the unfortunate reality that these types of misperceptions become self-perpetuating.
So, with that in mind, I would like to publicly invite Senator Kerry out to my house for a Bears game, meet my neighbors and have a beer or two with us.
Oh, you are all invited too. It should be a great time!
TayTay,
Knowing how stubborn this president is and how distanced he is from reality or his inability to admit his mistakes it doesn’t surprise me that he would never consider withdrawing troops and getting our troops out of Iraq. ‘Go Big’ is indeed what he will do and even the results of the midterm elections will not change his thinking in this regard.
Sen. McCain and other repugs are in a tight spot in that they don’t want to look like they are agreeing with an unpopular president but at the same time they need his support and donor lists to win the repug nomination. Not being able to see or admit reality has always been this president’s biggest weakness. When he removed Rumsfeld the MSM kept saying how he had finally changed course. I knew he never would.
He just wanted a different headline after they lost Congress in the midterm elections. He needed a scapegoat and removing the most unpopular member of his cabinet gave the appearance of listening to the voters without actually having to do so. The violence in Al Anbar province is a prime example that we are not winning the civil war and that the current strategy is not working.
If the can talk about abandoning this key Sunni province all the talk about staying there till we win and succeed falls flat because this administration is clearly walking away from this key province. If we can’t make a difference in Al Anbar how can we claim to make a difference in Baghdad and Sadr City which is where the worst violence is taking place.
oncall said: So, with that in mind, I would like to publicly invite Senator Kerry out to my house for a Bears game, meet my neighbors and have a beer or two with us. Oh, you are all invited too. It should be a great time!
Although mileage and schedules prevent everyone from doing this (wouldn’t it be great?) there is an alternative........ if I can get enough interest before the end of the month I’ll set up a voice chat for the Senator’s birthday December 11th to celebrate!
OT:
Just wanted everyone to know that Senator Kerry will be on Larry King tonight on CNN, 9:00 p.m. eastern time.
KarynNJ that’s an awesome letter!
Senator Kerry’s words are as profound now as they were then. The media has made every lame attempt to distract from his leadership on Iraq.
From tonight’s listings for Larry King: “Plus, Sen. John Kerry on his Iraq joke gone wrong.”
Whether Kerry will become a viable candidate for the 2008 nomination depends partially upon whether he can get beyond the unfavorable publicity caused by a poorly written joke which was even more poorly delivered. Kerry has no choice but to appear on shows like this to explain, but it is sure a shame. Kerry botching a joke is hardly the most important thing to be considered about him. The country would be far better served by listening to John Kerry’s ideas for getting out of the Iraq war gone bad, as well as his ideas on making health care more affordable, and for strengthening small business.
It looks like there is one constituency where Kerry lags behind George Bush--the psychotics.
Psychotics for Bush
The more psychotic one is, the more likely they voted for Bush. The same study also showed that even among this population another fact still held. Bush supporters had signficantly less knowledge about the issues than Kerry voters.
Ron,
It really is a shame. But he has to take care of the damage control.
It should be about Iraq and small business but instead it’s about an omitted prounoun instead of Bush’s gaffes and other politicians that have said far more offensive things.
It’s interesting that he accidentaly leaves out a word, he is no longer considered a serious candidate. Yet democrats and lefties go along with a GOP smear and media spin that he is “finished” and think it won’t happen to other candidates.
Is there any optimism coming back soon? It just seems like prior to October 31st, Kerry was out on the campaign trail, giving speeches, and getting postive feedback about running again, now it seems like the momentum has gone or shifted to other candidates (at least for the time being).
Thanks Fedup for the heads up on Senator Kerry’s being on CNN tonight...Thanks to TiVo I can watch when I get home at 7:30AM tomorrow...night shift is at times a drag especially when you need to do so much more on a political scale....Thanks for TiVo and family like each of you to keep us working together, now more than ever OUR Senator Kerry needs our support, and I think a birthday chat would be a great uplifting for us all....looking forward to details and ways to help...I also may have a plan that would need ALL our help to take flight, working on the details as yet....YOU FOLKS will be the first to know...We’re behind you Senator Kerry, and glad to be there...Thanks ALL...BlueRose
*waving hi to Mary “outtadaapaahk” from Manhattan*
re Larry King interview this evening:
You can email Sen. Kerry questions, for him to answer, by going to http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/larry.king.live/
and looking for email link under “Wednesday’s show”. Some good substantive questions could help keep the interview directed to the important stuff that really needs to be discussed.
Looks like tomorrow will be a fabulous day for cable news. The Senator’s hitting all three.
The Situation Room with Wolf Blitzer—CNN (airs at 4 pm and 7 pm EST)
Interview with Alan Colmes on Hannity and Colmes - Fox News (airs at 9 pm EST)
Interview with Rita Cosby which will air live on MSNBC tomorrow afternoon with Rita Cosby sometime between 12:45 - 1:05 pm.
Woo Hoo!!! I have to go make some space on my DVR.
Wow! Karyn NJ that was a perfect letter! Thank you for sending it to the usually blinkered Scarborough.
For over two and a half years now, I have been writing letters to editors about the value of a Kerry presidency. I was laughed at as a conspiracy nut when I noted that the 2004 election was widely cheated (and it was no comfort to finally see many former skeptics admit it this year - too late to save the country from 4 more years of ruin).
What I have been writing about this year is the maddening tendency of self-appointed pundits to dismiss another Kerry run as being yesterday’s news. Halfwits such as Chris Matthews keep rubbing their hands with glee over the notion of an Obama candidacy, or a Clinton run, etc., saying such puerile things as it would be “fun.” As if that was what mattered!
While I have no doubt that Sen. Obama may make a great candidate some day, it is far too soon to think about him. As for Sen. Clinton, she has been shamefully opportunistic and moderate on important issues such as the war and the environment.
Our country is ill served by news people and others who make such idiotic pronouncements as “Americans want to see new faces.” (Matthews keeps bleating that one.) Novelty for novelty’s sake is moronic. Experience and intelligence and integrity are what we need, and what we already have in Sen. Kerry. Why waste it???
Sadly, many Americans put too much credence in what the news readers and talking heads say. They do not do enough research and think for themselves. Even though more votersd realized what’s what this past election, there is still the real danger that dumbed-down Americans will not rcognize the worth of Sen. Kerry, if he chooses to run again. When cretins like Joe Scarborough tag him as a “loser,” they not only forget that he actually won in 2004, but they disparage a fine, worthwhile man who our country needs more than ever.
It was a tragedy that more Americans did not fight the Ohio vote count in 2004, as Rep. Conyers wanted to do. We are wasting 4 years of war deaths, money spent on murder, and countless millions of animal deaths due to habitat destruction caused by Bush and Co’s environmental depredations. Let’s not waste more time and precious resources. Recognize a leader when you see one, America! John Kerry is one of our best hopes. Let’s support another run, and THIS time, let’s not allow ourselves to be robbed a third time!!!!